This week’s installment of “Wireframe,” the documentary podcast about the design of digital products and experiences hosted by yours truly, dives into the shadowy world of designing for privacy, trust and security. It’s out today and you can listen to it below or subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

To unpack this complicated subject, we brought together a formidable panel of experts: cybersecurity lawyer Amie Stepanovich, Simply Secure Executive Director Georgia Bullen, and UX designer Lieke Beelen all joined me for an in-depth discussion about privacy as a design problem.

Each of them came to the table with a unique perspective on what designers can do in this arena to benefit both users and businesses alike. We discussed the apparent disconnect between the nearly continuous stream of privacy and security scandals in the headlines and the apparently unfettered growth that the companies at fault continue to enjoy.

I also took the opportunity to ask the question of complicity on the part of designers who have devoted their careers to furthering the advance of the platforms that are at the heart of today’s privacy and security debate. With these three experts at the table, I couldn’t let the moment pass without asking whether design as a profession isn’t just guilty of trying to make cigarettes healthier?

You can read more about this episode at theblog.adobe.com . And if you’re not familiar with “Wireframe,” it’s a unique kind of design podcast produced by Adobe and Gimlet Creative and hosted by yours truly. Instead of merely interviewing well known designers, we dig into the world of interaction design via heavily researched reporting and engaging narratives. In other words, stories instead of résumés. If you liked today’s episode, be sure to check out all six of the installments from our first season as well.

Art by Lucas Wakamatsu, who is illustrating each episode of this season.